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Curious Corsair (45b)

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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby GHOSTHUNTER » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:08 am

Having looked at the base rivets...I am convinced they are factory finish.

Not having a vast generic collection but a significant supply of #44a, Silver Cloud, my research on the Grey plastic wheels says the darker issues came first, but by the time the Corsair was in production they are lighter and perhaps of a consistant shade throughout the supply of the fine tread versions that were fitted on those models requiring them. What I am saying is maybe there are no significant shades of Grey on the fine tread 9 x 36 design.

We are all aware that colour trials can be done for any interior for any model, but what we don't have are records of known colour trials for so many of our models, so we must keep an open mind that more are out there waiting to be discovered and I am keeping my fingers crossed, the forum has just been blessed with a new discovery courtesy of DrJeep.

I think it will come down to observing casting faults and surface abrasions, etc to try and establish the model's place in it's 'Time-Line'.

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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby Idris » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:22 am

DrJeep wrote:
kwakers wrote:… Bob Brennen listed as a variation he had in his collection in his 1971 NAMC Guide… an odd Off White exterior paint model … with painted base.

Very interesting. I have both the first and second edition NAMC catalogues so, when I’m next home, I’ll see what the entry says about the silver trim on this variation.
However, having checked my catalogue review, I see that I did catch the off-white entry. However, since there is no mention of GPW, it looks to me as though Bob Brennan must have had a BPW version.
Could you please study the under-bonnet photographs supplied by Antonin (Diecast) in that topic and let us know which casting your off-white/cream model is?
DrJeep wrote:
Idris wrote:However, by the time the box art came to be prepared, the standard interior had become red.

but it does look like the box art model wasn't yellow-green. It doesn't look cream, either.

That’s because it’s neither of those colours! I have what appears to be a model from that run which came from a big Ford collection. I’ll try to remember to post a photograph once I’m back in the UK.
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby DrJeep » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:32 pm

Idris wrote:That’s because it’s neither of those colours! I have what appears to be a model from that run which came from a big Ford collection.

Now that really is exciting - I'd love to see it.
Idris wrote:Could you please study the under-bonnet photographs supplied by Antonin (Diecast) in that topic and let us know which casting your off-white/cream model is?

It's his first type, with smooth bonnet interior. This doesn't help much, though: of my 9 Corsairs I have 3 with Antonin's type 3 and all the rest are type 1. This includes 2 others with painted bases and 3 with plated bases, the latter including one with GPW.
Idris wrote:Looking inside the bodyshell, can any deductions be made in terms of the paint spray pattern when compared to a standard early production model?

The inside is evenly coated with a thinner layer of paint. This includes not only the interior of the car but also under the bonnet. My painted base Corsairs have less paint under the bonnet and the type 3 bodies have no paint under the bonnet. One of the plated cars has a similar even coat, though.

I've also added a close-up of the rear corner, showing what I think are casting flaws under the paint. Or are they scratches where someone scraped off the original paint?
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby Tinman » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:17 pm

GHOSTHUNTER wrote: Not having a vast generic collection but a significant supply of #44a, Silver Cloud, my research on the Grey plastic wheels says the darker issues came first, but by the time the Corsair was in production they are lighter and perhaps of a consistant shade throughout the supply of the fine tread versions that were fitted on those models requiring them. What I am saying is maybe there are no significant shades of Grey on the fine tread 9 x 36 design.
Ghosthunter.



That makes sense. As time went on, things were produced in greater quantities which (in most cases) means greater consistency.  My own observations on darker VS lighter gray wheels have only been passive observations with no real in depth thoughts or research on the subject.

I'd welcome that model right into my collection.
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby DrJeep » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:06 am

Tinman wrote:I'd welcome that model right into my collection

Thanks - that means a lot to me (but I'm keeping it!)
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby DrJeep » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:12 pm

Mostly for fun, really, here's a section of the cover of the 1965 catalogue, along with my re-enactment with playworn models. It's hard to match the colour balance, but I could persuade myself that the Corsairs are the same colour with the same interior colour too. On the other hand, the 1965 model looks to have black wheels.
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1965 Bronner catalogue
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reconstruction
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby Idris » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:09 pm

You could be right. (There's a king's ransom of pre-production and rare goodies on that cover!
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby DrJeep » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:22 pm

DrJeep wrote:I could persuade myself that the Corsairs are the same colour


I should have added "but could equally be persuaded they're not"!

Idris wrote:There's a king's ransom of pre-production and rare goodies on that cover


yes - I look at every Snow Trac hoping I might find the one with back windows... I'm sure I'm not the only person who does this.
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby Idris » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:45 pm

DrJeep wrote:[I look at every Snow Trac hoping I might find the one with back windows... I'm sure I'm not the only person who does this.


I'm afraid that Antonin has already let the cat out of the bag on that one (here), so we're all doing it!
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby kwakers » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:22 am

This is a very nice model Indeed Mr. Jeep, Thank You for showing it here for all of us to admire. As Hugh pointed out earlier, Bob Brennen would seem to have had the same colour Corsair in his collection with black plastic wheels and painted gray metal base as of January of 1973. I do not have his original first edition NAMC Guide from 1971 to check for it there, but that really won't effect your model's factory provenance. There are a couple of shades of the Pale greenish white paint listed, but his Off White description matches your model's paint colour very well.
As for both Tinman's inquiry and Ghosty's observations on the shades of gray plastic wheels, here are my thoughts:
In our stores in the 1960s collectors like Tinman and I were able to note earlier coarse tread models being sold with either light or dark gray plastic wheels, but never really took special note when buying for our collections. All Gray wheel models had been discontinued in the early sixties and replaced by their Black wheeled later versions in displays. If we found one still on display, we bought it without ANY thought as to the GPW tire "shades" that were so evident even back then. It was only when the collector Guides from NAMC (1971) and AIM (1976) were written, that these light and dark GPW were recognized as notable on certain Lesney models Harold and Bob had in their own collections. Prior to that, we all had both dark and light GPW on cars in our collections with very little thought given to them at all. Which came first? We can check castings on Ghosty's 44As to perhaps present a factual answer there, all else would be speculation on my part.
Ghosty is correct in pointing out that by the time the last type "fine tread" Gray Plastic Lesney wheels came into sporadic use, the colour shades of all sizes of them stayed consistently very light. I have never seen a fine tread Gray wheel in any darker shade of plastic used on any Lesney toys I have seen, so I cannot teach Joe Tinman anything the teacher/ sleuth has not already educated us on in his many well detailed Posts here on the Forum.
Your Curious Corsair is a Great Find Mr. Jeep, I will have to keep a closer watch on these from now on and I look forward to Hugh's pictures from that Ford collection.... :o :shock:
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