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Curious Corsair (45b)

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Curious Corsair (45b)

Postby DrJeep » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:30 am

I posted a picture of this 45b Ford Corsair as one of my Very Best of 2017, and Idris asked for more pictures.

I bought this in June, just because I wanted a cheap grey wheeled Corsair to join my collection of playworn Corsairs. GPW Corsairs were relatively late in production, appearing with the later interior (no extensions, longer tow hook) and a plated base. This one is very obviously different. The differences are:

- silver painted base, which was used on the first Corsairs
- colour - cream, not yellow or yellow-green, close to the Commer Rentaset but not the same
- interior colour - dark red, not bright red
- early interior moulding - extensions in the rear wheel arches, shorter tow hook
- no silver trim
- casting flaws - most apparent on the doors as scratches under the paintwork

The only issues I've found are the axle ends, which aren't opposed and are very rusty, and there's a small flat spot on the front left wheel (you can see it in the picture). But let's have your opinions - good and bad!
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45b colour comparison
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45b colour comparison
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45b base
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45b interior colour
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45b right side
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45b left side
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Last edited by DrJeep on Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby motorman » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:14 pm

Just a thought, with the rust on the axels suggesting it may have been stored/displayed somewhere that had moisture issues, could a moist environment have caused the paint shade to uniformly change over time?
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby Idris » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:42 pm

motorman wrote:Just a thought, with the rust on the axels suggesting it may have been stored/displayed somewhere that had moisture issues, could a moist environment have caused the paint shade to uniformly change over time?


Anything's possible, but that still leaves the dark interior colour and the silver-painted baseplate/GPW combination as requiring explanation.
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby GHOSTHUNTER » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:45 pm

Matched axle-ends are unusual on the Corsair (so many are opposed because of the period of the model's production) and if the wheels could be identified as to what shade of Grey they are (Dark, Medium or Light Grey), this could help with the model's period of production.

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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby Tinman » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:00 pm

GHOSTHUNTER wrote: and if the wheels could be identified as to what shade of Grey they are (Dark, Medium or Light Grey), this could help with the model's period of production.

Ghosthunter.


While I always noticed the different shades of gray wheels, I never thought about them presenting in a timeline. My only personal observation was that darker grays seemed to come later on in production. If there is indeed a timeline connected with the gray wheel shades, does anyone have some data that could be shared?
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby DrJeep » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:39 pm

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:f the wheels could be identified as to what shade of Grey they are (Dark, Medium or Light Grey), this could help with the model's period of production

Is "I don't know" an acceptable answer? I'd say medium, and they're the same as all the other fine tread GPW wheels I have, including my other GPW Corsair, the Commer Rentaset I showed earlier, and a very scruffy Ford Anglia. Apologies for the shadows - artificial light.

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:Matched axle-ends are unusual on the Corsair

Agreed. All of my other 8 Corsairs have opposed axle ends. It's interesting that all of my others fine tread GPW models, including the Rentaset and Anglia, don't have opposed axle ends.
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fine tread GPW
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby Idris » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:15 pm

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:Matched axle-ends are unusual on the Corsair (so many are opposed because of the period of the model's production) and if the wheels could be identified as to what shade of Grey they are (Dark, Medium or Light Grey), this could help with the model's period of production.


I'm still in Sweden at the moment and therefore unable to refer to my collection, so at least some of the musings which follow may be total nonsense:
1) I'n view of Ghosty's comment above, I'm a little concerned by what appears to be collapsed rear suspension: I once had something similar on a faked chrome-hubbed 53c Ford Zodiac (I got my money back), the issue being one of getting the replacement axle underneath the suspension strip. (Even if this were true, it would still leave the issue of the body colour.)
2) I think the 45b Corsair has a roof rivet for the glazing which I assume, given the model's release date, was spread. What is the glazing rivet like on this model?
3) I notice that the front rivet appears to have flakes of cream paint trapped between the flared head and the baseplate. To me this is a positive sign.
4) Pre-production interiors are in white and seem to have been produced late enough to make it into normal-coloured bodyshells (here) . However, by the time the box art came to be prepared, the standard interior had become red. Furthermore, silver trim was also being applied. It is therefore not immediately obvious where this model would fit in the development timeline.
5) As far as I am aware, only light and dark GPW are recognised. If anyone has a copy of the NAMC’s “Catalog of all Series Matchbox Models” (second edition) to hand, they might be able to puzzle wout which came first.
6) R&D tended to chisel-cut the baseplate rivets and crimp the axles. This model does not display either of those characteristics.
7) Looking inside the bodyshell, can any deductions be made in terms of the paint spray pattern when compared to a standard early production model?

Having said all that, I have a small number of models in odd colours, the majority of which I am convinced are genuine factory products, but whose existence defies rational explanatuon.
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby Malibu » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:52 pm

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:Matched axle-ends are unusual on the Corsair (so many are opposed because of the period of the model's production) and if the wheels could be identified as to what shade of Grey they are (Dark, Medium or Light Grey), this could help with the model's period of production.

Ghosthunter.


Is it really that anusual?
I only own three Corsairs - one of them does have matched axle ends.
Or does it only count for models with GPW mine has BPW?
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby DrJeep » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:56 pm

Idris wrote:I'm a little concerned by what appears to be collapsed rear suspension: I once had something similar on a faked chrome-hubbed 53c Ford Zodiac (I got my money back), the issue being one of getting the replacement axle underneath the suspension strip. (Even if this were true, it would still leave the issue of the body colour.)

There is no suspension at all - it's either collapsed or missing completely. As I paid £4.10 plus postage, I don't think I'll be able to get my money back... And there's also the interior colour, which really is much darker than the normal bright red.
Idris wrote:I think the 45b Corsair has a roof rivet for the glazing which I assume, given the model's release date, was spread. What is the glazing rivet like on this model?

The roof rivet doesn't seem to be spread. I have two other silver-based Corsairs. One has a chiselled rivet but the other is unspread.
Idris wrote: Pre-production interiors are in white and seem to have been produced late enough to make it into normal-coloured bodyshells (here) . However, by the time the box art came to be prepared, the standard interior had become red. Furthermore, silver trim was also being applied. It is therefore not immediately obvious where this model would fit in the development timeline.

You won't be surprised to know that I've searched widely for information on the Corsair since I acquired this one. Kwakers and Diecast (Antonin) had an interesting discussion about the 1965 Fred Bronner dealer catalogue.
Diecast wrote:Hi Dick, this only confirms what you said by topic 35b also. I agree with you, there must be a box with Pre Pro models to make a photo for the front page of 1965 Fred Bronner Dealer Catalogue. There are nice models like as 13d reverse colour Wreck Truck, 63b perhaps with a single face BPW ø12x45, 45b Ford Corsair with dark (green or violet ???) interior, 28c Jaguar .... Now we have the minor detail before us, find these models somewhere in the USA and put them into ours collections. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Antonin

kwakers wrote:Don't forget the pre-production 53-C Ford Zodiac with blue interior that Bob Brennen listed as a variation he had in his collection in his 1971 NAMC Guide. I am sure that was also a pre-pro interior color trial just like this 45B that may also have been shipped to Fred Bronner when they were initially released. Bob has no information listed on that odd 45B interior you have spotted there Antonin, he listed only the red interiors for this Corsair. He did have an odd Off White exterior paint model he listed as having with painted base, along with the stock color greenish blue one with painted base in his collection. Perhaps the odd interior color pre-pro one you see on this cover is also this same off-white color, but the Bronner pictures may not show that very well. kwakers

[my bold in both of these]
Idris wrote:However, by the time the box art came to be prepared, the standard interior had become red.

but it does look like the box art model wasn't yellow-green. It doesn't look cream, either.
Idris wrote:I notice that the front rivet appears to have flakes of cream paint trapped between the flared head and the baseplate. To me this is a positive sign.

thanks - I do think both rivets are good.
Idris wrote:R&D tended to chisel-cut the baseplate rivets and crimp the axles. This model does not display either of those characteristics.

The peened axle ends are a little bigger than on standard Corsairs. I've no idea what this implies.
Idris wrote:Looking inside the bodyshell, can any deductions be made in terms of the paint spray pattern when compared to a standard early production model?

That's a job for the morning and daylight! But I haven't noticed any obvious differences.
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Re: Curious Corsair

Postby DrJeep » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:59 pm

Malibu wrote:Is it really that anusual?
I only own three Corsairs - one of them does have matched axle ends.

Thanks, Stephan. I think you've proved it's not impossible to have matched axle ends, even if it's not normal.
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