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47c DAF Container Truck

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47c DAF Container Truck

Postby Idris » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:20 am

The NAMC’s “Catalog of all Series Matchbox Models” (second edition) has no variations not already covered by Nick.
The AIM “1-75 Series Regular Wheels” catalogue (second printing, 1983) lists a model at 47-3e which is silver body/BPW/silver roof/ridged cross-member/rear container ridge. Although Nick's table does not currently include the rear container ridge variations, this could be Nick's code 8 (see Stannard comments below). A near identical model is listed as variation 47-3f, but is stated to have a small tow guide. Unfortunately there is no illustration but, if confirmed, this would become Nick's code 9.
Stannard is less than clear when it comes to the retooling of the container, but his notes appear to imply that the change in base rib thickness from 2 mm to 1.5 mm is paired with the addition of the cross-brace low down on the rear face of the container. Does anyone have a container with 1.5 mm ribs, but no rear cross-brace?
Houghton does not list any variations not already covered by Nick, and U.K. Matchbox did not examine the model.
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Re: 47c DAF Container Truck

Postby DrJeep » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:07 pm

Bert got me looking for different tread patterns, and while I was checking the DAF container trucks I noticed another casting difference. The sea green truck on the left has narrow axle supports, which had been thickened by the time the silver truck on the right was made. This has the effect of making the silver truck's triangular braces look smaller.

The silver truck also has the well-known brace across the rear of the chassis (obscuring the (A) in this picture). It's possible that the axle supports were thickened at the same time as the brace was added - but I'd be surprised if we don't find an intermediate model. It's probably silver because there are silver DAFs with and without the rear brace.

There are also two different chassis and two different tipper castings. Both of these are chassis 1 (it's marked on the front cross member under the second axle). Chassis 2 may be different, so it would be good to keep track of this too.
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IMG_5592.jpg
thin and thick axle supports
IMG_5592.jpg (458.29 KiB) Viewed 163 times
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Re: 47c DAF Container Truck

Postby yellowfoden » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:00 pm

DrJeep wrote: It's possible that the axle supports were thickened at the same time as the brace was added - but I'd be surprised if we don't find an intermediate model. It's probably silver because there are silver DAFs with and without the rear brace..



Hi Glenn,

I have the 47c with thickened axle supports without cross-member brace on third axle with tow guide.
It has 2 cast on 2nd axle cross-member

This does not fit any M.Stannard code because Stannard does not have thick axle supports with NO cross-member ridge option as you are suggesting as the intermediate variation.
I do have it coded as NJ code 3 though as per current table determined by tow guide.

In the interest of keeping details accurate M. Stannard shows the type A container tabs as 2.5mm which is correct and not 2.00mm as catalogued.
On my examples of the 2.5mm tabs the rear container wall though is 1.0mm thick though M. Stannard says 0.75mm.
I would suggest if the M. Stannard type B container rear wall is thicker due to the addition of the ridge it would be more than the 1.00mm shown in the drawings.

I think any new table should have a column with chassis thickness (axle supports) shown.

And check this out, no post is complete without a new wheel type being found. We have here 44 tread wheels on this model on the axle on the base plate. :) :)

If you need any more pics please let us know.

Bert
Attachments
bert 47c thick chassis axle supports NO ridge 3rd axle crossmember.JPG
47c thick chassis axle supports with NO ridge on 3rd axle cross-member
bert 47c thick chassis axle supports NO ridge 3rd axle crossmember.JPG (116.88 KiB) Viewed 108 times
47c rear container wall 1.0mm with 2.5mm tabs.JPG
47c rear of container wall thickness paired with 2.5mm tabs
47c rear container wall 1.0mm with 2.5mm tabs.JPG (98.2 KiB) Viewed 108 times
Last edited by yellowfoden on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 47c DAF Container Truck

Postby DrJeep » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:40 pm

Thanks, Bert - it’s great that you have this new variation, and good to know that the axle support change came first. There must be another intermediate version too: either green with thick axle supports, or silver with thin axle supports. There’s also the question of where the tow guide first appears. This will probably turn out to be complicated. The red base is shared with the 58c DAF girder truck, also introduced in 1968.

Both of my containers are around 1 mm thick, like yours. I don’t think I understand the different container bodies, so any pictures of the variants would be very welcome!
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Re: 47c DAF Container Truck

Postby GHOSTHUNTER » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:54 pm

The appearence of 'Tow Guides' must have been considered as soon as a Wrecker/Recovery Truck was to be introduced into the range because without one, no point in adding them to the models!

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Re: 47c DAF Container Truck

Postby DrJeep » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:27 pm

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:The appearence of 'Tow Guides' must have been considered as soon as a Wrecker/Recovery Truck was to be introduced into the range because without one, no point in adding them to the models!

Ghosthunter.

You may be onto something here. Perhaps trucks weren’t supposed to be towed by the 13c Dodge of 1965, but by the 71c Ford Heavy Wreck Truck, introduced in late 1968, after the first 47cs and 58cs. Not that scale differences bothered me as a child - my Dodge towed anything, usually with the hook in the front wheel arch.
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Re: 47c DAF Container Truck

Postby GHOSTHUNTER » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:49 pm

Same here...front wheel-arch towing point although my #24c was never subjected to such undignified treatment, it simply did not breakdown, it was a Rolls-Royce :lol:

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Re: 47c DAF Container Truck

Postby yellowfoden » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:22 am

DrJeep wrote:Thanks, Bert - it’s great that you have this new variation, and good to know that the axle support change came first. There must be another intermediate version too: either green with thick axle supports, or silver with thin axle supports. There’s also the question of where the tow guide first appears. This will probably turn out to be complicated. The red base is shared with the 58c DAF girder truck, also introduced in 1968.
Both of my containers are around 1 mm thick, like yours. I don’t think I understand the different container bodies, so any pictures of the variants would be very welcome!


Hi Glenn,
Not sure if I am understanding the "silver with thin axle supports" other than that there is one already listed, or is there something else?
I have not seen a turquoise with thick axle supports but I do have the silver with thin supports without cross-member ridge. This is without tow guide and is not a new variation but is Stannard code 2 NJ2 and Christian 2 and just for reference.
This has chassis 1 and container 2

I also have another unlisted silver with thick supports, without cross-member brace and this has NO tow guide. (the one I showed in first post has tow guide). This may answer your query as to when the tow guide appeared on this 47c. This chassis by the way is number 1 and container 1
Code would be new code 2a in Stannard, Nick and Christian’s listings.

With reference to the container tabs and the correlation to rear wall variations here is 2.5mm tab paired with 1.0mm end wall photo attached.
The 2nd photo taken at an angle to show 1.5mm container tabs paired with end wall brace which measures 1.3mm. It also features mould number and thick axle supports.

Hopefully this detail will help those collectors who do not have access to M.J Stannard drawings.

Bert
Attachments
Bert 47c thick supports - no crossmember ridge NO tow guide.JPG
THICK axle supports NO cross-member brace NO tow guide
Bert 47c thick supports - no crossmember ridge NO tow guide.JPG (98.59 KiB) Viewed 41 times
Bert 47c thin supports - no crossmember ridge NO tow guide.JPG
THIN axle supports NO cross-member brace NO tow guide
Bert 47c thin supports - no crossmember ridge NO tow guide.JPG (105.24 KiB) Viewed 41 times
47c thick supports NO crossmember brace and 2.5 tabs -1.00mm wall .jpg
2.5mm container tabs with 1.00mm rear wall
47c thick supports NO crossmember brace and 2.5 tabs -1.00mm wall .jpg (76.83 KiB) Viewed 41 times
47c thick supports crossmember ridge 1.5mm tabs and 1.3mm wall brace.JPG
1.5mm container tabs with 1.3mm brace or bumper
47c thick supports crossmember ridge 1.5mm tabs and 1.3mm wall brace.JPG (79.65 KiB) Viewed 41 times
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Re: 47c DAF Container Truck

Postby kwakers » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:35 am

The "Small Tow Guide" referred to in Harold Colpitts' AIM Guide has a 6.3mm outside width, while the larger Tow Guide used on this 47C Container Truck has an outside width of 7.0 mm. Yes! They are quite noticeable in size when compared to the dip on this model's front bumper right in front of them. Mike Stannard missed these two different base tow guides, but Harold Colpitts noted them in his 1976 AIM Matchbox Guide listings. Those clever Yanks.... ;)
I have the late "Superfast Style" Container WITH rear bumper mounted on 2 different Regular Wheel chassis with different base Tow Guides. One RW chassis has the "Small Tow Guide" (6.3mm outside), and the other RW chassis has the larger tow Guide on it (7.00mm outside width).
I have not researched the history of these two different width Tow Guides yet, so I can't tell you which codes each base was used on, or in fact which tow guide width came first in production. These different Tow Guide widths on these front bases should also add a third type base for us which can be accurately noted and coded as different in any chart we work on to update Nick's out dated codes. I only say "Outdated" because we can now add at least one new Chassis, together with a 3rd type container (Thanks to Bert's Post above). With those we can now add that 3rd base casting with different tow guide along with yet a 4th style container with rear bumper as was noted by Antonin and Dan way back on February 8th of 2013, over 4 years ago now...... Kwakers
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Re: 47c DAF Container Truck

Postby yellowfoden » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:15 am

Idris wrote: Stannard is less than clear when it comes to the retooling of the container, but his notes appear to imply that the change in base rib thickness from 2 mm to 1.5 mm is paired with the addition of the cross-brace low down on the rear face of the container. Does anyone have a container with 1.5 mm ribs, but no rear cross-brace?
Houghton does not list any variations not already covered by Nick, and U.K. Matchbox did not examine the model.


Hello Hugh,
According to my notes recorded in my Stannard about 6 years ago I wrote that member twoj05 had a Nick code 5 variation with the 1.5mm tabs on the container and the rear wall on the container did not have the ridge/brace at the bottom.
This would imply that the tabs and rear brace/bumper on container were not paired at the same time.
I also had a notation that Christian too has this and this post here confirms

However I have looked for this variation since with no luck. Mind you to find such a thing online requires some very good photos taken by the seller just at the right angle.

Perhaps if twoj05 sees this and he still has the model he can add a pic … pretty please.

Bert
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